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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Couturier History (Read 4870 times)
kenton
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Couturier History
Oct 26th, 2005 at 2:44pm
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Courturier was a well known soloist at the turn of the century, though not well recorded. He first worked with Holton on the "Courturier Model", then with York, and in 1918 he and others opened their own business, "E. A. Couturier Co., Ltd.," with the intention of building instruments using his continuous conical bore patent. This cornet uses a minimum of cylindrical tubing.   The firm was bought by Lyon & Healy in 1923, and ended production in 1929.


It should be noted that there was also Couturier of Lyon was in business from 1812-1900.  Established by Jacques Pere.  In partnership with Dubois as Dubois & Couturier.  The company was bought by Pelisson in 1875, but continued to use the name.   These instruments are in their own separate category.
« Last Edit: Dec 26th, 2009 at 5:23pm by kenton »  
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Re: Two Couturier Histories
Reply #1 - Oct 26th, 2005 at 5:05pm
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The American company, E A Couturier Co, Ltd was started with two other men by Ernst Albert Courturier, who was born in Poughkeepsie, NY in 1869.  I am not aware of any connection between the two companies.
  

Michael Keller
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Re: Two Couturier Histories
Reply #2 - Oct 26th, 2005 at 6:40pm
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No, they don't to my knowledge, but there  is only 18 years between them, so it might be easy to confuse them.  That is why I decided to start them out on a single board.  As we get more examples of each, then it would  make sense to separate them.

  
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Re: Two Couturier Histories
Reply #3 - Jan 7th, 2006 at 3:58am
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Hi everybody, I'm new here and I'm a Couturier conical bore enthusiast and I've spent many hours in Elkhart and LaPorte researching the company.  Here's the short story.  The first really "conical bore" cornets made according to Couturier's 1913 patent were made by York starting in 1914.  1916, Couturer formed his own company with investors, bought out Seidel Co. in Elkhart (anybody seen any instruments by William Seidel?) and moved there in 1918 (maybe late '17 still searching) moved to LaPorte in Oct. 1918 and went into receivership Oct. 4,1923.  Lyon & Healy bought the factory in 1924 and continued to make saxophones and trumpets (that's all I've seen so far) in LaPorte (marked Chicago) until April 1928 when they sold the equipment to Holton.
    The last Couturier serial numbers were late 10,000, apparently L&H continued the series and went to about 19,000, then made some with 200 and 201,000 serial numbers.   
    The Holton Couturier models were designed by Frank Holton and Couturier was the artist endorser.  They were made about 1909-1912, later they made virtually the same horn as the Clark model.   

- Steve
  
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Re: Two Couturier Histories
Reply #4 - Jan 9th, 2006 at 4:16am
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    If you'd like to see the EA Couturier cornet patent of 1913, go to www.uspto.gov (the patent office) and do a patent number search for # 1,073,593.  On the page that takes you to, click "images" and it will show the patent.  You'll have to have a TIFF viewer to see it, if it doesn't work, look around the site and there's a link to download one.  Enjoy! 

- Steve Mumford
  
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Re: Two Couturier Histories
Reply #5 - Oct 12th, 2007 at 8:19pm
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hornworks wrote on Jan 7th, 2006 at 3:58am:
Lyon & Healy bought the factory in 1924 and continued to make saxophones and trumpets (that's all I've seen so far) in LaPorte (marked Chicago) until April 1928 when they sold the equipment to Holton


Looking at the Tonk entry in the New Langwill, it says that Tonk bought the "E.A. Couturier Band Instrument Co." from Lyon & Healy in 1923, so perhaps that's what happened to the low brass!

  

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Couturier Trumpets
Reply #6 - Sep 25th, 2006 at 1:59pm
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kenton wrote on Sep 25th, 2006 at 1:11pm:
The company moved from New York to La Porte Indiana in 1918.



I wonder if New York is correct.  I have recorded 2 early Couturier cornets (both with serial #s below 1600) as reading Elkhart, not New York.  Elkhart makes more sense to me, after Couturier left York in Grand Rapids and started his own company.  And why move from New York to La Porte?  Wink
« Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2009 at 2:46pm by kenton »  

Michael Keller
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Re: Couturier Trumpets
Reply #7 - Sep 25th, 2006 at 2:34pm
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Hmm, interesting question. 

Couturier was from New York (born in Poughkeepsie, died in Wingate) and Langwill says he started his business in New York in 1918 - having bought the business of Seidel.

Hornworks in our history section says that he started his business in Elkhart having bought the business from Seidel.

Langwill says that Seidel was located in Elkhart.

. . . maybe I mis-read Langwill. . . "1918 the 'E.A. Couturier Band Instrument Co.' was set up in New York, having bought the firm of SEIDEL, to produce 'Couturier Conodial Bore' BIs. also saxophones."

Nope, I think you and Hornworks are correct and Langwill contains an error.

  
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Re: Couturier Trumpets
Reply #8 - Sep 25th, 2006 at 2:44pm
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Perhaps the company WAS set up in New York on paper, but OPERATED in Elkhart.

And that's what has caused the confusion.
  

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Re: Couturier Trumpets
Reply #9 - Sep 25th, 2006 at 3:12pm
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At one point, I saw the comment that York had made some of his large bore cornets, and thought at first it said New York, so maybe they did something similar.

But, you may be right, he may have made the decision to start a business and set up the legal entity, and then discovered the availablity of the Seidel property.

  
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Re: Couturier Trumpets
Reply #10 - Sep 25th, 2006 at 6:19pm
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The Couturier Wizard WAS made by York for a period prior to Couturier picking a fight with the management of the York Co..Couturier did go to New York and set up his business. The first plant was established in Elkhart, In. they soon moved to La Porte, In. and operated until they went into either receivership or bankruptcy in about 1923, when The Lyon and Healy Co. of Chicago bought the patent rights and started production of the 'Conical Bore,Laporte cornets in their own plant in Chicago, Il..


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Re: Couturier Trumpets
Reply #11 - Sep 25th, 2006 at 9:51pm
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I believe it was marketed as a trumpet, although size and bore get very cornet like.  There were Conical Bore versions of all the brasses; certainly there are Conical Bore trombones surviving, too.


  

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Re: Couturier Trumpets
Reply #12 - Mar 29th, 2007 at 6:02pm
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  I have just been playing my remaining Couturier TRUMPET which is identical in every way to the cornet in picture #1, with the exception of the ring at the infeed end of the mouthpiece receiver. Another collector here in Michigan made the claim that the receiver had been switched out to accomidate a trumpet shank mouthpiece. I seriously doubt this, as I just examined the juncture of that ring and the mouthpipe with a jewelers loupe, and if it 'was' a remodel job, it was certainly done by an expert with the torch and solder.


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Re: Couturier Trumpets
Reply #13 - Mar 29th, 2007 at 6:34pm
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Couturier registered different designs for his trumpets apart from his cornets.

If your trumpet looks like the one above and the one drawn, I'd say that it was built as a trumpet!

  

Michael Keller
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Re: Couturier Trumpets
Reply #14 - Mar 31st, 2007 at 4:15pm
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the only difference that I can see between my Couturier trumpet and the pictured model is that mine has a cylindrical ring at the entry to the mouthpipe, whereas, the pictured instrument has a conoidally shaped lathe turned ring, which is the same design as all of the Couturier cornets that have gone through my hands. My current Couturier horn is the only one that I have encountered with the cylindrical mouthpiece receiver.


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