Polishing Satin Silver

Aug 25th, 2006, at 11:03pm

Ok, I thought I knew how. But my arms are dead, I used 1/2 a can of Silvo and just barely touched the Bell on my Eb Sousa.

This guy hasn’t been polished in a long time. What should I be doing?

Is there a magic dip cheap enough for a Tuba?

Reply #1 - Aug 26th, 2006,

If it has turned black, you could get it look better with Ammonium hydroxide (NH4OH) in a 8% solution. It removed dirt and oxidation. Do it outside because it has a rather strong and not too healthy smell.



Reply #2 - Aug 26th, 2006,

My method is to do a first pass with Tarnx. Then Blue Magic and then Haggerty silver polish



Reply #3 - Aug 26th, 2006,

Well, I tried to find Haggerty’s because that’s what the Tubas at MSU used when I was there. I know I can get Ammonium hydroxide here in mid-Michigan, so it might be worth the try.



It has turned dirty and grey. My Boosey Alto is Black, but I have got used to it being that color.



I saw a plate on eBay that you place in a tub with baking soda. Then you place your silver on that plate, and it comes out shining? Hocus-pocus?





Reply #4 - Aug 27th, 2006,

Probably not hocus pocus, but clarification is needed. Instead of baking soda, you need washing soda (sodium carbonate), plus hot water and aluminum foil.



In a tub of hot water (as hot as you can stand to put hands into to retrieve your horn parts), dissolve 1 tbsp washing soda per quart of water. Put in a sheet of aluminum foil. Then immerse your horn. The horn or part to be cleaned must contact the foil. After 10 to 15 seconds of immersion, the tarnish will loosen--wipe off with cloth. Then repeat the process for each part of horn that needs it.

Repeat areas as needed.



I did this with my antique alto horn which was black when I got it. It made a miraculous transformation to a nice satin silver with no hard rubbing & scrubbing as necessary with silver polish. Now a year later, the horn stays clean. Your biggest challenge will be to negotiate your tuba in tub.




Reply #5 - Aug 27th, 2006


My guess is that it is just an Aluminum plate! with proper directions.

Reply #6 - Aug 28th, 2006,

That process certainly sounds good. Almost too good to be true. I wonder if anyone has not had good experiences with it?




Reply #7 - Jun 16th, 2007,

Personally, when I am cleaning up satin silver, I just use baking soda, a good brush and hot water. In fact, I threw my silver polish in a drawer months ago and haven't taken it out! Although TarnX is great stuff, it sure smells! Would probably do a great cleanup job though.




Reply #8 - Aug 11th, 2007,

Again, back to old 'Bill' Johnson. When I worked for 'Bill' we used an old copper laundry tub over a couple of gas burners, loaded with tap water, washing soda and a plate of scrap aluminum. We used plate aluminum because aluminum foil was not yet readily available. The horn MUST be in contact with the aluminum for the electrolysis, to work. We would bring the water, soda, and horn parts up to near boiling, shut the flame down and wait about an hour for the chemical reaction to work. This was all done with the valves and slides out of the horns. The parts were then pulled out of the tub and rinsed well with running water. If aluminum foil is used, expect it to turn black and be as brittle as paper ashes. For my silver-plated trumpets and cornets, I use a 'window box' plastic tub from the garden center and pour hot water mixed with soda over the horn to totally cover it. It does work a treat. I still have a bottle of Wrights silver cream for the upper valve caps because I am too lazy to disassemble the valves totally.




Reply #9 - Aug 12th, 2007,

What is washing soda?




Reply #10 - Aug 15th, 2007,

Buy it in the laundry detergent isle at Walmart. Big box - cheap.



I also use it on my blue jeans (I work in wetlands and streams) in addition to my melaleuca laundry detergent and it really works to clean anything.



For silver, it acts as the medium to replate the silver. The silver oxide changes back to silver (very little) and it helps to release the grime.



I think it’s better at releasing grime than at silver plating.


Reply #11 - Aug 15th, 2007,

I am ready to try this "miracle"! If you are working with a whole horn, does just one part of it have to be touching the aluminum? Or do you need to wrap the whole thing in foil?


Reply #14 - Aug 16th, 2007, at 8:55pm

One brand to look for is Arm & Hammer Washing Soda, also labeled Laundry Booster and Water Softener. The product is sodium carbonate.



I used it very effectively on an early 1900s Conn alto horn, received very black from years of hanging in an attic. Very hot water (from the tap) and a sheet of aluminum foil.



Reply #16 - Aug 16th, 2007

Try silverware first! Then a mouthpiece, then pieces and parts.



A tuba requires a kiddie pool and 1/2 box of WS. I loosely wrap everything.



My experience is that it cleans really well, and less elbow grease is required. This isn't always the miracle you will see with mouthpieces.



Also, do this in a plastic tub (well ventilated).



Just for fun, toss a bright penny!


Reply #17 - Aug 17th, 2007

Well, I tried the process today. But didn't get the hoped-for results. I took horn parts wrapped them in aluminum foil. Brought some water to near boiling and added washing soda. The mixture churned like a cauldron. But, after an hour in the solution, I don't see much difference.







disappointing. Did I do something wrong?



Reply #19 - Aug 19th, 2007,

Did anyone mention the salt???


After your disappointing results, I decided it was time to look up the recipe. I got it from "Haley's Cleaning Hints" by Graham and Rosemary Haley and made widely known by a PBS fund-raising special. The recipe is for 1 quart-great for silverware. You can scale up as necessary.



Run 1 quart of hot water (not so hot that it will scald you--forget the boiling bath) into a basin. Add 1 tbsp washing soda and 1 tbsp salt. Place a sheet of aluminum foil on the bottom of the basin (forget wrapping up the parts). Submerge the items to be cleaned--they must touch the foil. The tarnish should dissolve in 10 seconds to a minute. Remove the items and rub with a soft cloth to remove stubborn tarnish. Re-dip is necessary.


Reply #20 - Aug 20th, 2007,

I've never left it in for more than 2 mins. Then I wipe and continue cleaning.



It must be touching the foil. A chemical / electrical reaction occurs between the silver and the Al. Let it go too far and I don't know what will happen. Thats why I suggested using silverware first. I have had the best luck with mouthpieces.




Reply #21 - Aug 20th, 2007

OK, third try. This time with Salt. I see some improvement:







And, just to bring it full circle, I did a stripe on the same horn body with my usual application of Tarnx. (spray on, wipe with a paper towel, spray again, rinse off)



And, that looks like:






Reply #22 - Aug 20th, 2007,

Is there a chemist on this forum who can explain the process here? Calcium carbonate, salt, aluminum foil, and tarnished silver. The aluminum foil turns black and brittle. What is the reaction?


Reply #23 - Aug 20th, 2007,

Good question. I wonder if it is mostly the churning action of the water during whatever the chemical process is that cleans the instrument.



I was reading on an Ultrasonic cleaner that I got off of eBay that they do not recommend using anything but detergent in it. (I think the basin in it is aluminum) I bet it would do a good job with the Washing Soda . . . till it ruined it!




Reply #24 - Aug 23rd, 2007,

So, washing soda is also known as calcium carbonate? The only stuff I found that seemed like it could be "washing soda" was call "20 Mule Team Borax". Maybe I'll have to check out a bigger Wal-Mart...(I hear ya Kenton...Iowa is just about ALL rural!) By the way, nothing happened with the borax besides a wet mellophone!


Reply #25 - Jan 21st, 2008,

This may be off the subject of "polishing" silver, but more about bringing a silver instrument back that had not been touched in half a lifetime - I bought a Holton helicon in '82 that was so black with tarnish it looked like it had been painted black. The tarnish was so heavy that silver polish would not touch it.



I used the aluminum foil process noted above in a bathtub, but with lye as the chemical. The lye reacts with the aluminum wrapping and begins the water boiling to beat the band. It removed over 90% of the heavy tarnish in a short time. The quality of the job had to do with how well the aluminum foil was placed.



Be sure to use only the pure lye without the metal bits in it. Those metal bits are aluminum so a reaction will start when water is added (as in a drainpipe). You want the reaction to occur between the aluminum foil and the plating.



And remember to crack open a nearby window.



Reply #26 - Jan 21st, 2008,

Be careful here: Soda has the chemical name Sodium Carbonate. The reaction to this solution runs peacefully. I would not use lye, as remainders could settle in places where you may not get it out, and corrosions could become an issue over time.



The chemical process is that the black silver is silver ions in connection with other residues. The soda does not get used, or worn out in the process, but the solution might become dirty.



Silver is a precious metal, while aluminum is not. The silver ions stand stronger in the electrochemical series than aluminum, so the silver ions are transferred back to pure silver, while the pure aluminum takes the place of the silver ions. While most silver-based solutions are heavy soluble in water, this works well with most aluminum solutions, they dissolve easily.



The best trick with this procedure is that you do not remove any silver from the instrument, and the chemicals used are not dangerous with normal care.

Reply #27 - Jan 21st, 2008,

The use of lye for this procedure was recommended in an early '80's issue of the TUBA Journal. Next time I'm up in the attic I'll see if I can find that issue; hopefully the mice haven't found it first and used it for bedding.



Lye with aluminum bits is what you will find in a can of Draino, but you want it without the aluminum bits, so the reaction takes place on the horn and not in the open water. I was hesitant to try it at first but was getting nowhere with other methods. I've noticed no corrosion or loss of plating after many years.



I'm just a farmer here and not a chemist, so we could be talking about the same chemical reaction using either of these. All I know for sure is - IT WORKED!!



Reply #28 - Jan 22nd, 2008,

I tried that. But I used an Aluminum basin first in an enclosed basement shop.


Mommy was mad.



Now I have a detached garage. And I may use Lye again, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. It’s just too dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.



If you are going to try it, evaluate a small non-valuable instrument (trumpet) or even just a tuning slide first. And read the directions / warnings on the LYE label first.



I have been using the nicer way with Washing Soda for a while, but I now have a reason to get out the kiddie pool in the spring and dip some horns.



(Maybe I'll have a party. Lou - you like brats and sauerkraut?)




Reply #30 - Feb 2nd, 2008,

Well, now I must explain myself.



I started looking for the Lye recipe and no one online remembered it and I forgot where I got it. So, I started using the Washing Soda method that has made the TV silver polishing plate a money maker.



Then, I found the article and just forgot not to tell anyone. And yes, the Lye works better. But it’s not worth it for the normal person.



But we are not normal.



Nor are we careful, in a month I will venture into the basement and copy the directions for historic saving the plating.