Old trombone slides
Old pre-1920 trombones slides have wider tolerances (about twice as much) between the outer slide and the inner sleeves, than modern horns.
So far, I haven't been able to get the slides to work very well, but admittedly I haven't spent much time on them either as other projects keep getting in the way.
But, has anyone had experience with vintage slides to know how they are supposed to work?
Reply #1 - Sep 15th, 2005,
The slides of old trombones will of course be more worn than newer instruments. But that is not the main difference. Old trombone slides tend to be brass versus brass in the slide, where modern instruments use some alloy on the sleeves.
Precision manufacturing of slides (and valves) is something that developed in the mid 1900's. With sufficient slide lubricant your pre-1920's trombones will work better.
My brother tells me that ponds coldcream was the thing to use for the slide. After the initial lube job, you spray water on each time you play.
That used to be the case. I carried a jar of Ponds in my case (the same one) for years. Now, the story goes that Ponds changed the formula for the cold cream, and afterwards it may have worked well on faces, but it didn't work as well on slides.
And that was my experience as well. After my original jar was used up, I bought another, and it just wasn't the same.
But that having been said, we are talking about 1950-60s instruments here. They had tight tolerances, not like the horns from the 1910s.
Holton was famous for its Electric Oil. And, though I never liked oil on a slide, it may be that on the old horns, that they may work differently when they are lubricated with oil. There must have been a reason that his oil was held in high regard.
Reply #4 - Sep 16th, 2005,
I agree with Kim; brass on brass, with the kind of plating they had <20's was not so pretty. Plus, you have my inverse rule of old brasses- Anything that sounds good is most likely played long past its prime, while it's the crummy sounding horns that MOST likely survived mint.
In my experience, slide tolerances and materials were at least as good as Perinet valve tolerances materials, and lasted at least as long, hence the size of the stocking at the end and the use of oil to keep things airtight.
Reply #5 - Sep 16th, 2005,
In my experience, slide tolerances and materials were at least as good as Perinet valve tolerances materials, and lasted at least as long, hence the size of the stocking at the end and the use of oil to keep things airtight.
My best horns have been old, patched-up beaters that looked like they should have been wall-hangers, so there's some truth to that statement. However, it is also true that the best of the old horns were given royal treatment in terms of decoration and care, and that those are the horns that lasted, too. I think, too, that those are the horns that get cherry-picked for museum collections, which in my view tends to skew the historical record, as that type of instrument has always been a rarity and the exception.
I think it's the instruments built for students, outdoor bands and army use that were built the toughest, and so lasted the longest. Thick metal was used, and a hard alloy, for durability- musicality was almost a secondary consideration.
The builders often tried to balance the best possible quality (considering the materials) and most durable, and one of the most successful examples of this is the Ambassador line of F. E. Olds and Sons. Fairly good student-model horns, built like tanks, and last forever. In the past, the same was often said of Jaubert student-model instruments, whose nickname in their day was "jaw breakers".
BTW- I've always used oil on my slides, never water. I've been using Al Cass for a long time. Works for me.
kevin67
Reply #6 - Sep 16th, 2005,
If you are going to try oil, you may wish to try what I must use on my old valves to seal them up. I just clean the valve (every time) and oil with one or two drops of 3 in 1 oil then oil with regular Holton oil. Works great if you don't try to use synthetic oil with the 3 in 1.