Valve variations
Aug 23rd, 2007,
Anybody have any insight as to who, pre ca1925, was making trumpets (NOT cornets) with a forward facing second valve slide, a la Benge et al?
Reply #1 - Aug 23rd, 2007,
Was there a design reason for doing them that way?
Reply #2 - Aug 23rd, 2007,
I can think of a very valid reason for slanting the slide to the rear. I have owned a couple of trumpets that were built with the slide facing forward and I spent lots of time pulling and emptying those second valve slides. Being a 'downstream player', all of the spit and condensate had nowhere to go, except to accumulate there.
Reply #3 - Aug 23rd, 2007,
The Beuscher "Epoch" horns did, as did some early Yorks.
Reply #4 - Aug 24th, 2007,
Thanks, I'll investigate those.
I've recently been delving into some Edna White sources and an early picture of her shows her with a horn that has a forward facing second valve.
Reply #5 - Jan 26th, 2005
The nickname "Catholic fingering" system, refers to having the 1/2-step valve first. The reversed valve order was common in Bavaria until the early twentieth century, and is called "Catholic fingering" in reference to the Catholic regions in which it was used.
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Early Valve Types Posts
Early Valve Types
Oct 31st, 2005,
Early Valve Designs from the 19th-Century Valved Horn by John Ericson at Hornarticles.com
https://www.public.asu.edu/~jqerics/earlval.htm
Reply #1 - Oct 31st, 2005,
Curious that there was no mention of the rather rare Allen valve in this otherwise fine overview. By the way, Seefeld of Philadelphia claimed credit for inventing the rotary valve that was popularized by Issac Fiske and the Boston Musical Instrument Manufactory. In an 1876 two-page circular, Seefeld included an illustration of his valve. The illustration is almost identical to one found in "Antique Brass Wind Instruments; an Identification and Price Guide." If memory serves me, the illustration was from an 1873 catalog from the Boston Musical Instrument Manufactory. Hmmm... I think I'm possibly opening a can of worms here. Clearly, the obscure Mr. Seefeld needs some more research. I found this information well after the reprint of the New Langwill Index had already gone to press. So, this is the first chance that I've had to put this information out to a wider audience.
Reply #2 - Nov 1st, 2005,
My suspicion is that since the overview was by a horn researcher, they most likely thought they were not applicable. I have never run across a valved horn so outfitted, either.
Reply #3 - Nov 2nd, 2005,
Very good point. Seefeld did display a few horns at the Philadelphia exhibit. I wonder if any of them survive. Talk about something as rare as hen's teeth.
Reply #4 - May 8th, 2008,
Antique Horns WEB site has a video talking about Vienna valves and what he described as a valve that is like the Vienna valve called the Neumainzer Klinkerdrucker, which to my ways of thinking was a type of Vienna valve, but Robert Medley says it is not a Vienna valve.
Reply #5 - Sep 18th, 2005,
Age determination for Stoelzel valves:
In some French instruments, even Raoux and Cortouis, the partitions in the valves may be of wax up to the mid 1800's
Some cheap cornets may have been equipped with stoelzel valves up to as late as the early 1900's.
Instruments build up to 1860-70-(80) will have a side-screw on each valve to prevent rotation of the valve. After that time a built-in groove does that job.
Oct 31st, 2005,
Early Valve Designs from the 19th-Century Valved Horn by John Ericson at Hornarticles.com
https://www.public.asu.edu/~jqerics/earlval.htm
Reply #1 - Oct 31st, 2005,
Curious that there was no mention of the rather rare Allen valve in this otherwise fine overview. By the way, Seefeld of Philadelphia claimed credit for inventing the rotary valve that was popularized by Issac Fiske and the Boston Musical Instrument Manufactory. In an 1876 two-page circular, Seefeld included an illustration of his valve. The illustration is almost identical to one found in "Antique Brass Wind Instruments; an Identification and Price Guide." If memory serves me, the illustration was from an 1873 catalog from the Boston Musical Instrument Manufactory. Hmmm... I think I'm possibly opening a can of worms here. Clearly, the obscure Mr. Seefeld needs some more research. I found this information well after the reprint of the New Langwill Index had already gone to press. So, this is the first chance that I've had to put this information out to a wider audience.
Reply #2 - Nov 1st, 2005,
My suspicion is that since the overview was by a horn researcher, they most likely thought they were not applicable. I have never run across a valved horn so outfitted, either.
Reply #3 - Nov 2nd, 2005,
Very good point. Seefeld did display a few horns at the Philadelphia exhibit. I wonder if any of them survive. Talk about something as rare as hen's teeth.
Reply #4 - May 8th, 2008,
Antique Horns WEB site has a video talking about Vienna valves and what he described as a valve that is like the Vienna valve called the Neumainzer Klinkerdrucker, which to my ways of thinking was a type of Vienna valve, but Robert Medley says it is not a Vienna valve.
Reply #5 - Sep 18th, 2005,
Age determination for Stoelzel valves:
In some French instruments, even Raoux and Cortouis, the partitions in the valves may be of wax up to the mid 1800's
Some cheap cornets may have been equipped with stoelzel valves up to as late as the early 1900's.
Instruments build up to 1860-70-(80) will have a side-screw on each valve to prevent rotation of the valve. After that time a built-in groove does that job.
So, why did Berlinner valves fall out of favor?
Feb 28th, 2013,
Peter and I were having an interesting email conversation this morning. And, it diverted to speculation about why and how the Berlinner valve lost popularity.
The Perinet valve was marketed as a light action. But is there any reason players would prefer one style valve over another? Or is it simply a case of marketing and advertising?
The Berlinner valve is 'fatter' but also shorter. So, I wondered whether the Berlinner had more surface contact with the casing, or whether it displaced more air, or whether it was heavier.
This Table was my attempt to test these possibilities. (And someone might want to check my math as that was never my strong point.)
But as far as I can tell none of the above are reasons why the Perinet would be superior.
Bore Height Travel Contact Surface Travel Displacement Weight
Berlinner 0.925 1.81 0.61 5.26 0.41 1.4
Perinet 0.811 3.16 0.79 8.05 0.41 1.8
I used valves from two high pitch tenor horns for my calculations.
So, was it all marketing?
Reply #1 - Feb 28th, 2013,
I guess that Perinet valves are more flexible for as far as valve port/through tube placing. Instruments with Berliner valves always have all valve slides in the same horizontal plane which limits the instrument design. So maybe it was where the manufacturers that favored the Perinet valve above Berliner pumpen.
Reply #2 - Feb 28th, 2013,
I can see that, but still the makers had to convince the customers that berlinners were not as good. And, get them to avoid berlinners in preference to the perinets.
Reply #3 - Feb 28th, 2013
I wonder if the diameter of the barrels, the distance between the finger buttons and possible increased friction could be involved. I don't own one of these types, so I have never handled Berliners. These are the sort of things you read about in discussions online. One thing that suggests itself to me is that the short length of the barrel could after some hard use and poor maintenance allow for greater "blow by".
i.e. leaky valves. The longer perinet piston provides a greater surface area which could help to contain possible leakage. I imagine good valve oils were hard to come by back in the 1800s. They probably used whale oil when they could get it. It was about the finest grade oil available at the time and was used in conjunction with most fine machinery.
Reply #4 - Feb 28th, 2013,
They recommended saliva.
I know, I've seen it in the catalogues. Crazy by today’s standards. Most of the time it was probably all they had. I should clean the pistons on a beater and see how it works over time.
Reply #6 - Mar 1st, 2013,
If you notice the design of most Perinet valved instruments place the water key before the valve section. M. Perinet wanted the saliva out before reaching his valve mechanism.
Whereas rotary valved and Berlin valved instruments most often have the water key (if existent) after the valve section.
The saliva is a calculated part of the operation of these valves.
One thing I have noticed with Berlin valves is that while the released valve has an almost straight trough hole in full bore diameter, the pressed valve holes usually need to have a reduced diameter, or rather width. These two holes are at the same height level of the valve body and leading them trough in full diameter would make an even thicker valve.
On my Berlin valved tuba there is a performance difference between all valves released, and all valves pressed.
Also, critics has been made on the Stoelzel valve for lack of performance. I'd say that both Berlin and Stoelzel valves are useable, but in modern instruments where there is hard competition between the brands on rather small margins, these valve types can’t keep up.
I'd say that today the race goes between the rotary valve and the Perinet valve, both have pros and cons, but there are also cultural differences, and traditions. And then there is the Vienna valve as the outsider.
Reply #7 - Mar 1st, 2013,
I realize that the early Berlinner valves had other issues that could have affected performance. Having the slice up the piston to position the guide in the casing is one. I would speculate that that could have had an effect on air tightness, and I know that it can lead to out of round problems with the piston. But that could be corrected by using a guide on the piston rather than on the casing.
I don't see any reason why the action should be slower with the Berlinners.
Kim's contention that there were sound quality issues is a different perspective. And, I will want to visit that. But, when they advertise the piston as "light action" it would seem they are not talking about sound.
Reply #8 - Mar 1st, 2013
OK, I see what Kim is talking about.
There is a measurable, but very slight out of roundness to the upper ports. But it is certainly no more than many bends in tubing in other place on an instrument.
So, maybe the problem is not the roundness of the ports per se, but rather the fact that all the ports in the piston and the casing are not all the similar out of roundness. So, consequently, the air catches on the wall of the roundness of the casing.
The Conn short action valves also had out of round ports, but they all lined up.
Reply #9 - Mar 1st, 2013,
When the Berlin valve is released, it is basically a part of a plain tube. You could push a cleaning brush through, without even noticing the valve. Whereas there are two narrow parts when the valve is pressed.
The difference is not destroying for the performance of the instrument, but it is there and noticeable between all pressed and all released.
I also notice that the Berlin valve lived longes in large brass instruments, whereas they seem to have had a very short life, if any noticeable in smaller brass winds.
The Perinet valve still has bends in the tubing when pressed, but the bores are close or equal to the bore of the instrument, if these rather sharp bends have influence, Perinet compensated this partly with letting the released tubing get some "disadvantage" in the sense of sharp bends too.
Sharp bends inside the valve was also the argument against the Stoelzel valve. Strange enough just in this part, the Vienna valve works the same way as the Stoelzel valve, and no one has made complaints about that!
Psychology matters! If someone is told that a certain valve type has some disadvantage, they will notice this if not...?
It could be fun to create a blind test. Give someone who claims to know a mouthpiece, where everything behind is hidden behind a black cardboard. The test person can blow the mouthpiece, and gets a box with 3 buttons, that operates the different valves electrical. I'd like to see how many could determine which valve types they are being served by.
In the Russian bassoon the main tube basically hits a dead end near the bell, and the sound wave must almost return in the direction it came from. It seems to work fine enough.
Reply #10 - Mar 1st, 2013,
Yes, blind testing. Like the recent one with the Strad Violin and several modern instruments. When asked to pick the Strad, the majority picked one of the modern instruments. Probably because the modern instruments were more Strad than the Strad itself, if you get my meaning. Also, things like plastic trumpets and trombones, glass bells. Beer is always a good example or the old Coca Cola-Pepsi Challenge. My son who was a diehard Coke fan picked the Pepsi When we tried it years ago. With these valves, who knows? I'd like to try the Berliners.
Feb 28th, 2013,
Peter and I were having an interesting email conversation this morning. And, it diverted to speculation about why and how the Berlinner valve lost popularity.
The Perinet valve was marketed as a light action. But is there any reason players would prefer one style valve over another? Or is it simply a case of marketing and advertising?
The Berlinner valve is 'fatter' but also shorter. So, I wondered whether the Berlinner had more surface contact with the casing, or whether it displaced more air, or whether it was heavier.
This Table was my attempt to test these possibilities. (And someone might want to check my math as that was never my strong point.)
But as far as I can tell none of the above are reasons why the Perinet would be superior.
Bore Height Travel Contact Surface Travel Displacement Weight
Berlinner 0.925 1.81 0.61 5.26 0.41 1.4
Perinet 0.811 3.16 0.79 8.05 0.41 1.8
I used valves from two high pitch tenor horns for my calculations.
So, was it all marketing?
Reply #1 - Feb 28th, 2013,
I guess that Perinet valves are more flexible for as far as valve port/through tube placing. Instruments with Berliner valves always have all valve slides in the same horizontal plane which limits the instrument design. So maybe it was where the manufacturers that favored the Perinet valve above Berliner pumpen.
Reply #2 - Feb 28th, 2013,
I can see that, but still the makers had to convince the customers that berlinners were not as good. And, get them to avoid berlinners in preference to the perinets.
Reply #3 - Feb 28th, 2013
I wonder if the diameter of the barrels, the distance between the finger buttons and possible increased friction could be involved. I don't own one of these types, so I have never handled Berliners. These are the sort of things you read about in discussions online. One thing that suggests itself to me is that the short length of the barrel could after some hard use and poor maintenance allow for greater "blow by".
i.e. leaky valves. The longer perinet piston provides a greater surface area which could help to contain possible leakage. I imagine good valve oils were hard to come by back in the 1800s. They probably used whale oil when they could get it. It was about the finest grade oil available at the time and was used in conjunction with most fine machinery.
Reply #4 - Feb 28th, 2013,
They recommended saliva.
I know, I've seen it in the catalogues. Crazy by today’s standards. Most of the time it was probably all they had. I should clean the pistons on a beater and see how it works over time.
Reply #6 - Mar 1st, 2013,
If you notice the design of most Perinet valved instruments place the water key before the valve section. M. Perinet wanted the saliva out before reaching his valve mechanism.
Whereas rotary valved and Berlin valved instruments most often have the water key (if existent) after the valve section.
The saliva is a calculated part of the operation of these valves.
One thing I have noticed with Berlin valves is that while the released valve has an almost straight trough hole in full bore diameter, the pressed valve holes usually need to have a reduced diameter, or rather width. These two holes are at the same height level of the valve body and leading them trough in full diameter would make an even thicker valve.
On my Berlin valved tuba there is a performance difference between all valves released, and all valves pressed.
Also, critics has been made on the Stoelzel valve for lack of performance. I'd say that both Berlin and Stoelzel valves are useable, but in modern instruments where there is hard competition between the brands on rather small margins, these valve types can’t keep up.
I'd say that today the race goes between the rotary valve and the Perinet valve, both have pros and cons, but there are also cultural differences, and traditions. And then there is the Vienna valve as the outsider.
Reply #7 - Mar 1st, 2013,
I realize that the early Berlinner valves had other issues that could have affected performance. Having the slice up the piston to position the guide in the casing is one. I would speculate that that could have had an effect on air tightness, and I know that it can lead to out of round problems with the piston. But that could be corrected by using a guide on the piston rather than on the casing.
I don't see any reason why the action should be slower with the Berlinners.
Kim's contention that there were sound quality issues is a different perspective. And, I will want to visit that. But, when they advertise the piston as "light action" it would seem they are not talking about sound.
Reply #8 - Mar 1st, 2013
OK, I see what Kim is talking about.
There is a measurable, but very slight out of roundness to the upper ports. But it is certainly no more than many bends in tubing in other place on an instrument.
So, maybe the problem is not the roundness of the ports per se, but rather the fact that all the ports in the piston and the casing are not all the similar out of roundness. So, consequently, the air catches on the wall of the roundness of the casing.
The Conn short action valves also had out of round ports, but they all lined up.
Reply #9 - Mar 1st, 2013,
When the Berlin valve is released, it is basically a part of a plain tube. You could push a cleaning brush through, without even noticing the valve. Whereas there are two narrow parts when the valve is pressed.
The difference is not destroying for the performance of the instrument, but it is there and noticeable between all pressed and all released.
I also notice that the Berlin valve lived longes in large brass instruments, whereas they seem to have had a very short life, if any noticeable in smaller brass winds.
The Perinet valve still has bends in the tubing when pressed, but the bores are close or equal to the bore of the instrument, if these rather sharp bends have influence, Perinet compensated this partly with letting the released tubing get some "disadvantage" in the sense of sharp bends too.
Sharp bends inside the valve was also the argument against the Stoelzel valve. Strange enough just in this part, the Vienna valve works the same way as the Stoelzel valve, and no one has made complaints about that!
Psychology matters! If someone is told that a certain valve type has some disadvantage, they will notice this if not...?
It could be fun to create a blind test. Give someone who claims to know a mouthpiece, where everything behind is hidden behind a black cardboard. The test person can blow the mouthpiece, and gets a box with 3 buttons, that operates the different valves electrical. I'd like to see how many could determine which valve types they are being served by.
In the Russian bassoon the main tube basically hits a dead end near the bell, and the sound wave must almost return in the direction it came from. It seems to work fine enough.
Reply #10 - Mar 1st, 2013,
Yes, blind testing. Like the recent one with the Strad Violin and several modern instruments. When asked to pick the Strad, the majority picked one of the modern instruments. Probably because the modern instruments were more Strad than the Strad itself, if you get my meaning. Also, things like plastic trumpets and trombones, glass bells. Beer is always a good example or the old Coca Cola-Pepsi Challenge. My son who was a diehard Coke fan picked the Pepsi When we tried it years ago. With these valves, who knows? I'd like to try the Berliners.
Stoelzel Valves
Sep 10th, 2012
I would like to invite Bastrompet to describe his findings and efforts with a much-damaged cornopean he acquired.
It is one of the stoelzel valved instruments in which the valve ports are made with wax.
Although I had heard about them, I couldn’t imagine how it was done until I bought a Cornopean (in pieces) that had them. In the picture on the left, you see 3 valves still partly filled with wax. In the middle you can see all 3 valves are identical on the right a drawing so you can see the inside. Between the holes there is a brass (yellow) piece of sheet metal. If you shut one of the top holes with tape, fill the cavity with hot wax let it solidify and then make an opening through the valve the effect is the same as a brass through tube. The bottom holes can be shut both with tape and you can fill the bottom part with wax up to app. halve way the holes and make the necessary opening. I think it will last for a long time but if not, it shouldn't be too hard to remove the old wax and replace it with new. I guess real wax will work the best but it is a natural product and in some way bio degradable and maybe the stuff that modern candles are made off works just as well.
I am still working on the horn, one of the valve casings was bent with the valve in it, I have to replace some pieces of tubing that are split open along the seam, and as it came in here in pieces, I have to rebuild it. The Cornopean is complete except for the finger buttons that are made of ivory. I only have the one in the picture and I have not found anything to replace it with.
Reply #2 - Sep 12th, 2012,
Of course, leaving the horn in a hot car could cause problems, but otherwise, the does seem like a rather practical, yet elegant way of creating pistons.
I'm still trying to figure out how those valves re sprung though. Didn't it have external valve guides?
And cornopean valves do help explain why valves with squirrel cages were invented. (Which I have long wondered about, since you find them on very old horns.) You certainly couldn't bottom spring a cornopean!
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2012,
The springs in these valves are in the top of the valve. A screw goes through the valve casing and through the lowest point of the slid in the top of the valve directly under the spring. The combination of the screw and the slid also form the valve guide and the limit of the distance the valve can travel. Top spring valves before perinet with bottom spring valves.
Reply #4 - Sep 12th, 2012,
It might be tricky to get the external guide to fit under the spring.
Oh wait, I bet you can insert the valve, insert valve guide, THEN insert the spring and the stem.
Reply #5 - Sep 12th, 2012,
That could be a way to do it but you can't keep the valve pushed in top position so that would be a lot of fiddling. In these valves the lowest part of the inside of the top of the valve has a diameter that is smaller than the spring so the lowest part of the slid stays free, no spring in the way of the screw.
Sep 10th, 2012
I would like to invite Bastrompet to describe his findings and efforts with a much-damaged cornopean he acquired.
It is one of the stoelzel valved instruments in which the valve ports are made with wax.
Although I had heard about them, I couldn’t imagine how it was done until I bought a Cornopean (in pieces) that had them. In the picture on the left, you see 3 valves still partly filled with wax. In the middle you can see all 3 valves are identical on the right a drawing so you can see the inside. Between the holes there is a brass (yellow) piece of sheet metal. If you shut one of the top holes with tape, fill the cavity with hot wax let it solidify and then make an opening through the valve the effect is the same as a brass through tube. The bottom holes can be shut both with tape and you can fill the bottom part with wax up to app. halve way the holes and make the necessary opening. I think it will last for a long time but if not, it shouldn't be too hard to remove the old wax and replace it with new. I guess real wax will work the best but it is a natural product and in some way bio degradable and maybe the stuff that modern candles are made off works just as well.
I am still working on the horn, one of the valve casings was bent with the valve in it, I have to replace some pieces of tubing that are split open along the seam, and as it came in here in pieces, I have to rebuild it. The Cornopean is complete except for the finger buttons that are made of ivory. I only have the one in the picture and I have not found anything to replace it with.
Reply #2 - Sep 12th, 2012,
Of course, leaving the horn in a hot car could cause problems, but otherwise, the does seem like a rather practical, yet elegant way of creating pistons.
I'm still trying to figure out how those valves re sprung though. Didn't it have external valve guides?
And cornopean valves do help explain why valves with squirrel cages were invented. (Which I have long wondered about, since you find them on very old horns.) You certainly couldn't bottom spring a cornopean!
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2012,
The springs in these valves are in the top of the valve. A screw goes through the valve casing and through the lowest point of the slid in the top of the valve directly under the spring. The combination of the screw and the slid also form the valve guide and the limit of the distance the valve can travel. Top spring valves before perinet with bottom spring valves.
Reply #4 - Sep 12th, 2012,
It might be tricky to get the external guide to fit under the spring.
Oh wait, I bet you can insert the valve, insert valve guide, THEN insert the spring and the stem.
Reply #5 - Sep 12th, 2012,
That could be a way to do it but you can't keep the valve pushed in top position so that would be a lot of fiddling. In these valves the lowest part of the inside of the top of the valve has a diameter that is smaller than the spring so the lowest part of the slid stays free, no spring in the way of the screw.
Re: Early Valve Types <r>Coropean valves
I would like to invite Bastrompet to describe his findings and efforts with a much damaged cornopean he acquired.
It is one of the stoelzel valved instruments in which the valve ports are made with wax.
Bastrompet
Although I had heard about them, I couldn't imagine how it was done until I bought a Cornopean (in pieces) that had them. In the picture on the left, you see 3 valves still partly filled with wax. In the middle you can see all 3 valves are identical on the right a drawing so you can see the inside. Between the holes there is a brass (yellow) piece of sheet metal. If you shut one of the top holes with tape fill the cavity with hot wax let it solidify and then make a opening through the valve the effect is the same as a brass through tube. The bottom holes can be shut both with tape and you can fill the bottom part with wax up to app. halve way the holes and make the necessary opening. I think it will last for a long time but if not it shouldn't be too hard to remove the old wax and replace it with new. I guess real wax will work the best but it is a natural product and in some way bio degradable and maybe the stuff that modern candles are made off works just as well.
I am still working on the horn, one of the valve casings was bent with the valve in it, I have to replace some pieces of tubing that are split open along the seam, and as it came in here in pieces I have to rebuild it. The Cornopean is complete except for the finger buttons that are made of ivory. I only have the one in the picture and I have not found anything to replace it with.
Of course, leaving the horn in a hot car could cause problems, but otherwise, the does seem like a rather practical, yet elegant way of creating pistons.
I'm still trying to figure out how those valves are sprung though. Didn't it have external valve guides?
And cornopean valves do help explain why valves with squirrel cages were invented. (Which I have long wondered about, since you find them on very old horns.) You certainly couldn't bottom spring a cornopean!
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2012
The springs in these valves are in the top of the valve. A screw goes through the valve casing and through the lowest point of the slid in the top of the valve directly under the spring. The combination of the screw and the slid also form the valve guide and the limit of the distance the valve can travel. Top spring valves before perinet with bottom spring valves.
Reply #4 - Sep 12th, 2012,
It might be tricky to get the external guide to fit under the spring.
Oh wait, I bet you can insert the valve, insert valve guide, THEN insert the spring and the stem.
Reply #5 - Sep 12th, 2012,
That could be a way to do it but you can't keep the valve pushed in top position so that would be a lot of fiddling. In these valves the lowest part of the inside of the top of the valve has a diameter that is smaller than the spring so the lowest part of the slid stays free, no spring in the way of the screw.
I would like to invite Bastrompet to describe his findings and efforts with a much damaged cornopean he acquired.
It is one of the stoelzel valved instruments in which the valve ports are made with wax.
Bastrompet
Although I had heard about them, I couldn't imagine how it was done until I bought a Cornopean (in pieces) that had them. In the picture on the left, you see 3 valves still partly filled with wax. In the middle you can see all 3 valves are identical on the right a drawing so you can see the inside. Between the holes there is a brass (yellow) piece of sheet metal. If you shut one of the top holes with tape fill the cavity with hot wax let it solidify and then make a opening through the valve the effect is the same as a brass through tube. The bottom holes can be shut both with tape and you can fill the bottom part with wax up to app. halve way the holes and make the necessary opening. I think it will last for a long time but if not it shouldn't be too hard to remove the old wax and replace it with new. I guess real wax will work the best but it is a natural product and in some way bio degradable and maybe the stuff that modern candles are made off works just as well.
I am still working on the horn, one of the valve casings was bent with the valve in it, I have to replace some pieces of tubing that are split open along the seam, and as it came in here in pieces I have to rebuild it. The Cornopean is complete except for the finger buttons that are made of ivory. I only have the one in the picture and I have not found anything to replace it with.
Of course, leaving the horn in a hot car could cause problems, but otherwise, the does seem like a rather practical, yet elegant way of creating pistons.
I'm still trying to figure out how those valves are sprung though. Didn't it have external valve guides?
And cornopean valves do help explain why valves with squirrel cages were invented. (Which I have long wondered about, since you find them on very old horns.) You certainly couldn't bottom spring a cornopean!
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2012
The springs in these valves are in the top of the valve. A screw goes through the valve casing and through the lowest point of the slid in the top of the valve directly under the spring. The combination of the screw and the slid also form the valve guide and the limit of the distance the valve can travel. Top spring valves before perinet with bottom spring valves.
Reply #4 - Sep 12th, 2012,
It might be tricky to get the external guide to fit under the spring.
Oh wait, I bet you can insert the valve, insert valve guide, THEN insert the spring and the stem.
Reply #5 - Sep 12th, 2012,
That could be a way to do it but you can't keep the valve pushed in top position so that would be a lot of fiddling. In these valves the lowest part of the inside of the top of the valve has a diameter that is smaller than the spring so the lowest part of the slid stays free, no spring in the way of the screw.