Keyed Brass


Ain't notin' pretty about the oph! If you are going to get something pleasant out of it, you are going to have to drag it out, kicking and screaming! The oph would much rather sound like a bunch of cows at milking time!

OK, now I'll take the contrary view. My experience with keyed bugles and ophicleides has been very different; decent keyed bugles are just flugelhorns that need a little coaxing, and the ophicleide that I used was a delight to play, a little uneven in pitch, but a very mellow baritone sounding horn with wonderful overtones. The serpents I played were very different altogether.

I've liked playing keyed instruments for their round, rich sound. They are a challenge to play with an ensemble, but I used the oph with the modern orchestra, and lived to tell the tail.

Regarding serpents- I was absolutely floored to hear Doug Yeo play. What a gorgeous sound! There's another guy whose name I lost who's touted as being the top oph player in the UK right now, who is said to be an ophicleide virtuoso. I wish I could find his name again. I want to pick up some of his recordings.

Reply #15 - Jan 16th, 2006,

Let's just agree that everyone should listen to Doug's recording of serpent music. He's also played "O Ruddier than the Cherry" on ophicleide (Sam Hughes famous solo) and written a version for Oph and band.

Nick Byrne of the Sydney Symphony Orchestra is bringing back the Oph down under and has some nice clips available online. His playing is beautiful: no cow sounds involved.

Then there's Jay Krush of the Chestnut Brass, and the guy who plays with the group Passion de Cuivres, whose name escapes me now.

But do you know of any ophicleide recordings other than the clips available on the web?

I fear that once again I'm taking this thread astray from the original topic, but you've touched on my current passion here.


Reply #16 - Jan 16th, 2006,

Just in case someone out there has never been to this site,

http://www.serpentwebsite.com/

The name says it all, they also have plans for homemade square serpents and oph's. and other resources and links.

Reply #17 - Jan 16th, 2006,

Links to Ophicleide Players:

Nick Byrne's site: http://www.ophicleide.com
(Includes some great clips-- listen to the Botessini trio)

Erhard Schwartz site: http://www.ophicleide.de/index.html

Doug Yeo: http://www.dougyeo.com

And there's this from the London Trombone Society:

"The ophicleide revival, which was probably instigated by David Rycroft in 1965, has continued - up to the recent formation of the London Ophicleide Ensemble. The greatest current ophicleidist is undoubtedly Alan Lumsden, perhaps better known as a sackbut and serpent player. Clifford Bevan (The Tuba Family, Faber, London 1978) describes him as having "the dexterity of a trained flautist and the embouchure of a professional trombonist"." Source: http://www.trombone-society.org.uk/ophicleide.htm

Reply #18 - Jan 17th,

Brasswinds have developed much trough the past two centuries, unlike most other instrument types, whose development has reached some kind of final.

The first generations of keyed brasswind and invention horns had a different performance than instruments in use today, that’s true. And it was the sound of keyed ophicleides etc. that many composers knew when they wrote their music. Whether they would like the sound of a high-end machine manufactured horn with precision manufactured valves or not, we can only guess.

Each piece of music can be interpreted. We know that there is a difference if Karajan or Bernstein is the conductor. The instrumentation is interpretation too. Geography also makes a difference. East European brasswinds tend to be with a narrower bore and narrower bell. Thus, the same music will sound different. Even the hall where a piece of music is played makes a difference.

The pro horn players of today appreciates their valved horns. With an instrument as uncooperative as the horn, they welcome any sign of cooperation, like valves instead of slides. If they work many hours with an instrument every day, they will want to use the best available.

Try to go to your next truck stop and ask if any trucker would change his chrome plated monster with a two-horse cart.

The interpretation of horn music with high end instruments has become mainstream, that interpretation could eventually become "the only one".

So that is why it is good that there are still folks around who play their vintage horns, and thus bring other interpretations into knowledge.

I have experienced musicians afraid of vintage horns. If I offer someone to have a try on a full operational vintage horn in my workshop, where only I and the spiders can hear, the do not want, even seem afraid. Like the thing could cut their tongue off, or something bad. No, they hang on to their made-in-India brasswinds made of semi magnetic brass with sharp edges here there and everywhere.

Reply #21 - Jan 17th,

Jay Krush and the Chestnut Brass are at http://www.chestnutbrass.com/site/brassmusic/

I was fortunate enough to play with Jay on ophicleides when I was working. (If only we could have convinced the REST of the orchestra to use period instruments, but that's another subject...) One of the great things about Jay is that he plays ophicleide often enough that intonation is NOT an issue. For some of the Berlioz, in fact, we used Bb and C instruments, as he (Berlioz) had specified, to make use of the "good" (more resonant) pitches of each. One thing I am happy to say is that I think we held our own with the "volume" of a modern orchestra.


Reply #23 - Jan 17th, 2006,

Yes. (some of each). Where the parts differed, it was very hard to tell if he really wanted something else, and just wrote around it. The guy knew how to write. In unison, we would just let the stronger horn lead note by note. Whether around good notes, or bad ones, you really must listen to the ensemble to make a coherent line. Which is another reason I liked working with Jay.


Reply #22 - Jan 17th, 2006,

Are the C and Bb parts written to avoid the 'bad' notes (like the low Ab on the Bb), or did you just have the same part and let the stronger horn take the lead on weak notes?


Reply #24 - Jan 17th, 2006,

Wow! You played with Jay Krush? He’s, my hero. I'm not kidding about this. He's an amazing musician and a remarkable person. His flexibility and creativity and artistry simply leave me in awe.

And on top of that, you own Simone Mantia's own euphonium. Now you're my hero too.

The Chestnut Brass will be in Northfield MN this summer (July 27-31) for a meeting of the International Wind Music History Conference and a big "Vintage Band" festival. I'll be there too, presenting a paper on (of all things) defenders and critics of historical performance practice. I'm not scheduled to perform-- looks like there will be plenty to see and hear, and I'm no longer a professional musician. But I sure plan to bring some horns just in case the opportunity knocks.

I've never heard Chestnut Brass live, so I'm very much looking forward to this.

Passion de Cuivres will also be there, and a bunch of other great groups.

I had heard from Doug Yeo that Berlioz wrote parts especially to accommodate the good/bad notes of the Bb and C ophicleides, but I haven't taken the time to examine the scores. What score are you referring to?

On 'holding your own' on ophicleide in a modern orchestra: Nick Byrne urges that the modern trombone is orchestrally incompatible with the ophicleide, and that players should scale back to smaller bore horns whenever the part is covered by an oph. When I first read this, I took umbrage at the suggestion: I have a huge modern bass trombone which I love dearly. Even from deep in the pit, I could shatter the glasswork and peel the paint off the back of most concert halls in the world. But I'm quite capable of playing softly and listening for balance. On the other hand, the tone quality is very different from the older bass, and I've come 'round. But try selling that idea to any contemporary trombone section (except maybe the guys in Boston).

Reply #25 - Jan 18th, 2006,

I know what Nick is talking about, there, and to some extent I agree. A lot of the older brass ranges in sound from tight to nasal. Take the G bass trombone at high volume, for example. I have a Husqvarna chainsaw that sounds similar. Both the chainsaw and a period G bass leak about the same amount of oil. Even a contrabass trombone produces a sound like trolls in a cave going "Oh" in a certain area of their low range. A lot of modern large-bore brass, by comparison, has a much more open sonority.

But I disagree that the two sonorities don't mix. They do. If you've got Horns, regardless of when they were made, side-by-side with peashooters trombones, ophicleides, and G basses, you're mixing both types of sounds.


Reply #26 - Jan 18th, 2006,

Which companies produced the British G Bass? I've seen examples from Boosey, Besson, and Higham. I think I've seen others too, but I can't remember.