When it comes to ophicleides and quinticlavs, Kenton, what is the range of numbers of keys, from least to most? And why do they vary so much?
Reply #2 - Sep 25th, 2005,
Well, the answer is that they kept adding keys to try to find solutions to the intonation problems. As far as I know the 9 key was the basic instrument.
BTW, the keyed bugles were the same way, they had some with more keys. I assume the the horns with the additional keys were the later models.
I'll have to do some checking to see what notes the extra keys affected. The one I play has 9 keys. As an aside, like woodwinds, you can also make some adjustments by 1/2 keying.
Reply #3 - Sep 26th, 2005,
I've often wondered if the larger keyed brass could be re-engineered to replace the bocal with a fixed piece having two rotary keys, one for intonation and the other for jumping from iffy to more resonant register on "bad" notes. In fact, I've often wondered if a hybrid valve/keyed instrument of some sort couldn't be made that would preserve the sound of keyed brass but improve their range stability.
Reply #4 - Sep 26th, 2005,
Don't know, . . . but I don't think so. A couple of thoughts come to mind.
Like a saxophone - and don’t make too much of this parallel - you only have a limited amount of tuning you can do, because you can't re-adjust the intervals between the keys. If you add extra tubing via a valve, it will throw off all the intonation.
BTW, the reason for not making too much of the parallel with the saxophone is, although both probably originated with the same piece of conical tube, the fingering systems are opposite. the keys on a saxophone at rest are open. All but one of the keys on the ophicleide at rest are closed. Another interesting aspect of the ophicleide is that if the tube had no holes in it, it would be 1/2 step lower than what key it is in. i.e., the Bb ophicleide with no holes would sound like an A.
The other thing is the overall effect the valve would have on tone. Sticking a sax mouthpiece on a trumpet, trombone, or baritone does not get you a sax sounding horn.
Reply #5 - Sep 29th, 2005,
Back to the question of the extra keys on some ophicleides; I went and asked Nick Byrne of
http://www.ophicleide.com
And he tells me that the additional keys are for notes that are played with difficulty and often with double or cross fingerings. The worst example of this is the note that is one whole step down from the pitch of the instrument. On a Bb Oph. it is the Ab. You can finger it several ways - none of them satisfactory. So, the 10th key is to give the player a single key to press to get the Ab. The 11th key is to get an F#, and the 12th is to get a low F. Nick says that although the fingering has improved, the tone is no better.
All these problematic notes are played with the lower hand, which means that they are controlling holes that are closer to the mouthpiece. The notes that are fingered with the hand that controls the keys closer to the bell are much more dependable and certain.
Reply #6 - Apr 16th, 2011,
At one time, I had measured and written down the length of tubing on a Bb ophicleide. It was 9ft, 3in.
Today, it occurred to me to look up that length on the chart of Pitch Lengths. To be a Bb instrument, it should have been in the range of 103-106 in., not 111.
But it struck me that the way an ophicleide is constructed is with one key resting in the open position. And when you close that one key, which makes it a closed tube from mouthpiece to bell, it plays an A, not a Bb. An, A instrument should be in the 110-113 in range.
Jan 15th, 2006,
I would like to confess my interest in and affection for the Ophicleide, perhaps the most under-appreciated of the brasswinds. Even the serpent garners more affection and has a more loyal following. I'm interested in developing a list of 19th century makers, and to gain more information about its development.
I know that ophicleides were made in England, France, Germany, and the US. From other players I've heard rumors that the best was made in France, except for a few made for Sam Hughes following his own special design.
I'd be interested to collect the names of ophicleide makers in different areas. If you can, please correct my spelling and any errors.
France:
Beauboeuf Freres. (Mark Jacobs plays the 9 key Beauboeuf Freres in C, Paris circa 1850.
Colline
Couesnon
Courtois
Gautrot
Guichard
Halary (Nick Byrne has a Halary)
Labbaye of Paris. (he got a patent for a 10 key version in 1822)
Michaud (Paolo Fanciullacci owns Michaud in C with 11 keys made in Paris circa 1870.)
Millereaux,
Roehn (Doug Yeo plays a 9 key Roehn in C, I think from about 1855)
Sax
Sonier
England
Butler (I believe that Jay Krush plays a Butler with 11 keys. I think it's a C)
Distin (were Distin ophicleides really made by Gautrot?)
Germany
Pfretzschner, Markneukirchen
Finke (John Davies plays a 9 key Finke in C, 1850)
Fiske (Nick Byrne plays a Fiske)
Italy
Adolfo Lapini.
Maruti made bass horns and serpents but he night also made ophicleides.
-Giuseppe Pelitti
Agostino Rampone
-Ferdinando Roth
Camillo Sambruna
When did the ophicleide acquire the two extra keys, moving from 9 to 11? My estimate: About 1860. Can anyone confirm this or make it more precise?
QUALITY: Anyone have views about the relative quality of ophicleides from different makers...?
Reply #5 - Mar 11th, 2006
How 'bout quinticlavs?
Reply #6 - Mar 11th, 2006,
I've never actually seen a quinticlav and I don't know who made 'em. But I'd be interested.